Phantom Future Global Light Chasing | Science Fiction Shines into Reality: The Moment of "Apollo Landing on the Moon" in Brain Computer Interface

Reporter: Ding Zhouyang, Du Wei, Editor: Liu YanmeiIn Iron Man, Tony Stark used his ideas to control War Armor; In "The Matrix", humans in the real world enter the maternal world by inserting connectors; In 'Wandering Earth 2', humans transmit their thinking to computers, creating digital lifeThese details in the science fiction world all point to a common dream, which is to expect deeper or even closer connections between humans and external devices, in order to accomplish things that are currently impossible for humans. And behind these details, there is also a popular vocabulary of today - brain computer interface

Reporter: Ding Zhouyang, Du Wei, Editor: Liu Yanmei

In Iron Man, Tony Stark used his ideas to control War Armor; In "The Matrix", humans in the real world enter the maternal world by inserting connectors; In 'Wandering Earth 2', humans transmit their thinking to computers, creating digital life

These details in the science fiction world all point to a common dream, which is to expect deeper or even closer connections between humans and external devices, in order to accomplish things that are currently impossible for humans. And behind these details, there is also a popular vocabulary of today - brain computer interface.

Image source: Photography Network_ six hundred million two hundred and seven thousand eight hundred and thirty-seven

On October 7th, CCTV's "Dialogue" opened the topic of burning the brain. Guests including Luan Guoming, Chairman of the Chinese Branch of the World Society for Neuroregulation, Sun Bomin, Chairman of the Psychiatric Surgical Treatment Committee of the World Society for Functional Neurosurgery, Han Bicheng, CEO of Qiangnao Technology Co., Ltd., Lv Baoliang, Professor of Computer Science and Engineering at Shanghai Jiao Tong University, and Duan Weiwen, Director of the Philosophy of Science and Technology Research Office of the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences gathered together, Explore the present and future of brain computer interfaces together.

Dialogue Live Image Source: Video Screenshot

The scenes and plots depicted in science fiction works often serve as inspiration for technological inventions. The 81st World Science Fiction Congress will be held in Chengdu from October 18th to 22nd. On the eve of the opening of the conference, Red Star News and Daily Economic News jointly launched a large-scale integrated media interview and report on "Illusion of the Future, Global Pursuit of Light". Focusing on the cutting-edge technology of brain computer interfaces, which may sound like science fiction, is actually 'not far from our lives'.

A small step for Pinto, a big step for brain computer interface

Reporter: From the perspective of researchers, what is a brain computer interface? What exactly are we developing it for? What can it do?

Luan Guoming:Broadly speaking, it refers to the direct contact between any computer and the central nervous system in the world, establishing a connection. If we obtain the signal, read and decode the code, and then provide feedback back, it is a true application of brain computer interface.

The main purpose of paying attention to and promoting this technology is to achieve two goals. Firstly, to understand the human brain through brain computer interfaces. Our brain is very mysterious, with 140 billion cells in various parts, and this network connection is very complex. By obtaining a large amount of information about the workings of the brain through brain computer interfaces, and reaching a certain amount of data, we can understand the function of the brain. Secondly, for different parts of the brain that have problems, interfaces can be implanted to provide different external stimuli, achieving therapeutic effects, and achieving rehabilitation goals for both the central and peripheral nerves.

Reporter: How long has this research been ongoing so far? Can you give me a number? For example, five years, ten years, twenty years, thirty years?

Luan Guoming:To be precise, since the 1950s, we have been implanting electrodes into our brains. In the past, indirect EEG signals were obtained from scalp EEG for analysis. Now, by implanting electrodes into the brain, our understanding of the brain has changed since the direct acquisition of brain signals.

Similarly, computers began to be studied at this time and gradually delved into deep learning. So, since the emergence of computers, we may have had the embryonic form of brain computer interface research. It's just that we didn't use such a concept to explain it at that time.

Luan Guoming, Chairman of the Chinese Branch of the World Neuroregulatory Society Image source: Video screenshot

Reporter: In the 2014 Brazil World Cup, a young man named Pinto kicked off, but what everyone didn't expect was that he was a person who had been paralyzed for 6 years. He only completed the kickoff after six months of training. Completing the kick off is already magical enough, and what's even more magical is that Pinto has a sense of touch, which is an incredible thing. We want to know why the world paid special attention to this young man kicking off at that moment? Why do some people call it an important moment in the field of brain computer interfaces, the Apollo moon landing?

Luan Guoming:A small step for Pinto, a big step for brain computer interface

2014 Brazil World Cup Kickoff Ceremony Image source: CCTV video screenshot

The "Emotional Brain Computer Interface" Helps Depression Patients Get Rid of Depression

Reporter: How much effort has the scientific community put into behind Pinto's move?

Han Bicheng:Firstly, this is a breakthrough in engineering. Because he was unable to stand before, he needed to create a full body exoskeleton device in a very short period of time. Secondly, because the human brain is very complex, with over 100 billion neurons, it can be greatly affected by on-site emotions. A person facing tens of thousands of live viewers, and playing a kickoff, with over a billion people watching online, may experience significant emotional fluctuations in their brain. So it's important to ensure that this signal is accurately transmitted and the ball is kicked out regardless of the environment. These are the two most challenging aspects of brain computer interfaces, first is data collection, and second is data parsing.

Reporter: But can our human brain accept something that is not originally part of the internal organization of the brain and start working and functioning?

Luan Guoming:There is a premise here that before this kick, he underwent repeated brain training of "kicking, kicking, kicking" and obtained countless EEG signals. Through this operation, he decoded it, and after decoding, an impulse released by the computer was similar to the electrical signal released by his brain. If there is no repeated training N times, this level cannot be achieved.

Reporter: With an external arm, I am able to flexibly do everything. Has this become popular in real life?

Sun Bomin:Now we have such technology or products, but for the vast majority of people with disabilities, this is not always possible, and the issues involved are quite complex. Not only is it expensive, it has a certain proportion and cannot guarantee that everyone has this result.

Reporter: Apart from giving paralyzed patients the possibility to stand up, what other possibilities can this technology bring?

Lv Baoliang:In addition to the improvement and restoration of motor function mentioned earlier, there is also a category called "emotional brain computer interfaces". For example, some very important positions nowadays, such as fatigue level, workload, and emotional state, did not have good skills to obtain before. Now we can use brain computer interface technology to detect their state. For example, some people who are not good at math and cannot do calculation problems can use the method of cochlear implantation to use chips to help them do calculations. After doing so, they feel that the results are calculated by themselves. Providing him with knowledge or a cognitive prosthesis, an automated cognitive process.

Professor Lv Baoliang from the Department of Computer Science and Engineering at Shanghai Jiao Tong University Image source: Video screenshot

Journalist: It sounds incredible, it can promote scientific ways to restart one's life. Can brain computer interface technology also help depression patients overcome depression?

Sun Bomin:In 2005, scientists conducted an experiment using brain pacemaker electrical stimulation to treat depression, and the experiment found that the symptoms of depression fluctuated greatly. The most typical one is called 'heavy in the morning and light in the evening', which means it is heavier in the morning and lighter in the evening, and there are significant individual differences. We need to find an objective biomarker in the brain to distinguish between the good and bad states of patients. In the future, we can design a product that can automatically recognize this biomarker and switch to different stimuli in the brain.

Erase memories, control thoughts, those ethical boundaries that are thought-provoking and terrifying

Reporter: What is the boundary between innovative applications of brain computer interfaces and social ethics?

Duan Weiwen:In life medicine involving humans, there have always been four ethical principles, namely respect for autonomy, harmlessness, benefit, and fairness. Specifically, in brain computer interfaces, it mainly involves the impact on human mental autonomy. For example, the human brain information and data we currently collect can be decoded and recognized through computers, which in turn regulate human cognition, psychology, or spirit. In this situation, it will involve people's spiritual privacy. What do you think? What don't you like? For spiritual privacy, it may actually be the act of making some decisions about him without his own consent.

Reporter: All of this is thought-provoking and terrifying. Why can you still talk about it so calmly?

Duan Weiwen:We are in an era of deep technological advancement, and the ethical issues of this era, even the ethical principles involved in life medicine, are no longer fully practical, or have encountered many new problems. Recently, someone mentioned that UNESCO is discussing whether "humans should have neural power", which is a new fundamental power. The power of technology is very great, which can be utilized effectively or abused. As a researcher, of course, I feel uneasy, but my understanding is that these problems cannot be solved immediately, but we must "go to the kitchen" to finish washing the dishes. This is my feeling as a researcher.

Reporter: Is it possible for children to quickly acquire the wisdom of their predecessors without going through difficult studies. Is this really good or not?

Sun Bomin:From the current standards, this will affect fairness and impartiality. If we implant something through technology, it can improve people's memory and intelligence, and it can "flash kill" other children, which will definitely affect fairness. Not all families can afford it.

Image source: Video screenshot

Reporter: Is thought transplantation something to think about in science fiction, or is it something that humans in the real world need to face?

Han Bicheng:As for memory transplantation, the only experiment conducted in mammals so far may be Ted Berg of the University of Southern California in mice. He put a chip into the brain of a mouse and placed the mouse in a box. There was food on both the left and right sides, but whenever the mouse went to the left, Ted would give it an electric shock. Over time, the mouse gradually learned to only go to the right to eat. Later, Ted took out the chip from this mouse's brain and placed it in another mouse's brain. The old mouse that had never been in the cage would go straight to eat the thing on the right. This confirms that memory can be transplanted.

Luan Guoming:Ted is my friend, and I once wanted to work with him. We have a disease called hippocampal sclerosis. If the hippocampus is removed, the patient's memory, especially the dominant hemisphere, will be partially damaged. So, we are thinking about whether to put this chip into the human brain based on animal experiments to improve memory by 10%, which is also very effective and can be achieved in the future. This is a pathological application that will be very beneficial for human memory recovery and health.

Reporter: If we delve into ethical boundaries and assume that memory transplantation technology can truly be implemented, who will be responsible for this matter on that day? Who will retrieve our memories and how much? How many implants can be implanted, what kind of people can be implanted, and such a management boundary, have we started to consider today?

Duan Weiwen:This is a concept, and if we can truly complete this step, it will indeed help us communicate and learn for the entire human race. I think this can be popularized. Originally, there were no cars, only bicycles. Didn't we use them very well? These are all similar issues. Now we have only reached a higher level, as it involves cognition and spirit, and everyone needs to carefully consider it. But ethics needs to develop with the development of technology.

Reporter: Will humanity achieve digital immortality?

Duan Weiwen:I find it difficult. Because digital immortality involves understanding immortality. What do you think eternal life is? Because we have our own perception of ourselves, your ultimate replication result is just a perception of your carrier. But from an external perspective, we can now achieve a form of immortality through digital humans, and what I mean by 'immortality' is in the sense of the third person. For example, in Deng Lijun's concert, Deng Lijun is equivalent to immortality, but for Deng Lijun herself, she will not feel immortality.

Reporter: What is the ultimate form of human-computer interaction?

Sun Bomin:I think first of all, for normal people, your interaction with nature and people is more efficient. Because the brain signals have already been utilized. Another aspect is that our prevention of various diseases, such as depression and other mental illnesses, including Alzheimer's disease, will greatly improve, making a significant contribution to the overall human life.

Han Bicheng:The immortality mentioned earlier is a very, very distant thing, but now it has gradually become something that can be discussed within the scope of technology. Human immortality, I think it is possible to achieve it one day.

Daily Economic News

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